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How Matt Jones Has Used A Facebook Group To Build His Business

In the podcast:

02:19 – How Matt Started
06:28 – Birth of Matt’s Tradie Web Guys
08:19 – Know Your Niche and Stick With It
09:46 – Building Up Lead Generation for His Business
13:06 – Site Shed Podcast and How it Generates Leads
16:55 – Using Facebook Group and Getting Qualified Leads
19:09 – Results of Using Facebook Group
20:43 – Know Your Target Audience and Moderate Your Group
25:21 – Risks Of Creating A Community on a Platform You Don’t Own
27:28 – Don’t Go Hardsell
28:14 – Lead Time for Conversion
30:50 – Don’t Gauge What’s Popular Based on Listen and Downloads
33:16 – Quality Leads Over Quantity of Leads


Matt Jones discusses how he has used a free Facebook group to build a community of engaged and hyper targeted leads for his business. He discusses the common mistakes people make with Facebook groups and also the success he has had with it. Don’t miss this episode.


How Matt Jones Has Used A Facebook Group To Build His Business in PDF


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Ilana: Welcome to today’s episode of Talking Web Marketing. We’re up to episode number 28, and today I am introducing a guest called Matt Jones, who was a plumber. And he decided that he would not pursue the traditional path of plumbers and took a bit of a left turn, as he noticed that there are a lot of other agencies are that weren’t taking care of trade based businesses in any way. So that led him to start his own digital agency called Tradie Web Guys, which provide digital solutions for trade people. And he also has a podcast called The Site Shed.

So I invited him on today’s show to talk about really how he built the agency and the podcast. And one of the key aspects that he has done to do this is a free Facebook group. So it’s a little bit contentious, because some people don’t agree with Facebook groups, and some people love them. But I invited Matt on to talk about his experience with it. And I guess the common pitfalls that people fall into with Facebook groups and the way he’s been sort of really successful in doing so. So welcome to today’s show. Matt Jones.

Matt: Thank you for having me.

Ilana: It’s lovely to have you on. I always like to talk to people who have a very interesting background and work in different kind of niches. So can you kind of start by telling us a little bit about yourself, your background and the industry working now?

How Matt Started

Matt: Sure. My background is actually plumbing. I used to be a plumber or I still a plumber, I suppose. I still have the ticket, I use it very well. You probably wouldn’t want me fixing your plumbing these days. It’s been a long time stepping out of the game. But yeah, that’s where it started.

I grew up in Sydney, Australia. And like a lot of kids, I suppose going through the academic system, I realized that I probably wasn’t what you would consider the academic type of student therefore coming up to, you know, that life changing decision where you’re like, Okay, what am I going to do for the rest of my life when you’re 16, which is ridiculous. I thought, I want to be a trader. So I was working with a mechanic, it was as like a part time job after school and stuff when I was when I was younger. And one of the mechanics there, his brother was a plumber. I said this when I was in kindergarten, when you write down what you want to be when you grow up. Apparently, I wrote down plumber. So yeah, I don’t know what the deal is with that. One of my good friends. His dad was a plumber. So maybe I thought it was cool. But anyway, it so happens, I reach this mechanic and he said, He was pretty keen on doing an apprenticeship. You reckon you’d like to have a chat with him? Or, you know, whatever. And he said, Yeah, absolutely send them down. And basically, within a week, I had a job and I came home and said, Mom, I said, I got an apprenticeship.

He was like Jesus that didn’t take long. So I started my apprenticeship, I loved it through honestly, I really enjoyed the apprenticeship. I enjoyed the trade and enjoyed the customer interaction always that kind of stuff. And then I did what most young Australians do, they’ve, I finished my type course. And I packed my bags and took off around the world for three years, while I was away, I was doing a number of things in various countries, plumbing was one of them in the United Kingdom, and Canada and America.

Matt: And I just realized that I as much as I liked it, I’ve kind of felt like it was a little bit I was kind of stuck. I was working for some massive companies in the United Kingdom. And you were literally just a number and it was kind of disheartening. I really enjoyed the work but I thought, you know, the structure is a bit wrong. So I started taking an interest in business while I was away and reading lots of, business books. And when I came back to Australia, I thought, I’m just going to start my own business. So the classic example here of and this is very common in the trades, you go and do your apprenticeship you serve your time and you know you may be very good at the trade but you have no idea to run a business. So when I came back to set up my business and I didn’t have anything in order I didn’t have any idea how to you know, put tax aside and all that kind of stuff I ended up in all this debt and all this you know stuff that you just stupid frowned upon you look back on it you think you really needed a mentor which is exactly what I needed. It teach me how to run a business it wasn’t the case sort of went through the school of hard knocks there and and I ended up anyway, after a while I got screwed over by a builder as many people have been, and I lost a lot of money in that. Then I got offered this position, which was a sales and marketing role. And I was like, Oh, this is great. And that was actually through at that time, and the guy I that was mentoring me. And he said, I have this client. Would you be interested in it? I was like, Yes, actually, that’d be great.

So it was a sales and marketing job, I jumped at it, because I thought, Oh, this is a good chance for me here to learn how business works, to learn this whole, you know, organizational structure, and, you know, all this kind of stuff. What I didn’t know that point, of course, was that by taking that job, I would not only be learning, you know, what works, I would be learning more of what doesn’t work important.

Ilana: Equally I’d say.

Matt: And so yeah, I took that position. And it was a really good experience, but then I sort of got fed up with archaic processes and systems. And I’ve always been quite technology minded. And, you know, when you’re working in organizations, with dinosaurs, it kind of becomes a bit tedious. So anyway, at the end of the day, I always will, basically working with plumbers. And we had a lot of clients who are selling high ticket products to them around Asia Pacific and they come back and say, ‘Hey, listen, if you don’t start selling some of the stuff you’ve sold us, we’re going to be sleeping in the trailer that we just bought off you’. So I said, ‘Well, you know, you got to get on your website’. And they said, ‘Well, we don’t have a website’. And I was like, ‘Well, you better get one well, how do I do that?’ And I was like, I’ll just look after for you. So I ended up building a couple of these guys websites, and they spoke to friends and friends. And then it just started growing. So as a result, I ended up leaving that job. And I do worry about that all wrong as well. I might add, I sort of basically through the talent and said, whoo, I’m out of here. So I hate it at that stage. So I pretty much did everything wrong. And the upside in the business, and that was, what, seven or eight years ago.

Birth of Matt’s Tradie Web Guys

Ilana: So that business is what’s become the Tradie Web Guys. Yeah?

Matt: Yeah, that’s right. So we started it was Tradie Web Guys and we start actually, it actually started as plumbing work guide, we just did websites for plumbers, Plumbing Companies, but then after a while, very early in the piece that that morph to Tradie Web Guys.

Ilana: So for those listeners who don’t know, what is essentially a web agency for trade people.

Matt: Yeah, more or less, we just do we do digital solution. So we have websites, and we do some marketing strategies and mainly in the space of a lot of content related stuff. So we do a lot of things that tie back to the website as the platform. So landing page creation, content creation, on page SEO, all that kind of stuff. And then recently, we sort of, we’ve been moving a little bit more towards the paid marketing side of things. But yeah, that’s effectively all we do. We just work with trade businesses, and we just help them establish foundation that will facilitate scale. So you just try to avoid that scenario for our clients where, you know, and we get it all the time, because people come to us almost weekly with to inquire about websites that I’ve had to build it months ago, and they want to, you know, do something to it, and we have to rebuild the whole thing in order to enable it. So we just trying to avoid that for them.

Know Your Niche and Stick With It

Ilana: And I like the fact that you’ve chosen you know, your vertical because I think there’s a huge amount of power in that it makes it very easy for people to refer you work because you guys are experts in the trades and but I would imagine it be quite tempting to then maybe go to hair dresses or something all sort of expand out a little bit. Have you kind of had that way you’ve been tempted to kind of go into a different vertical?

Matt: Yeah, I mean, hair dressers a trade by the way.

Ilana: I know. But like, that’s why I said it, where it’s like, it is a trade, but it doesn’t fit in your plumber, electrician, you know, like, there’s always that gray area, which is is like this carrot that’s dangled in front of you to test how much you get a stick meeting. You know.

Matt: I mean, look at the end of the day. I’ve niched myself, as you know, the expert in towards trades. And that is where we focus all of our marketing all of our attention. We don’t do any marketing outside of that. Now, of course, as a result, through friends and colleagues and things like that, we will get people inquiring, ‘Hey, can you help with do it, Hey, can you help us to a website, blah, blah’ things like that. So we have done websites or companies that are not trade specific, at the end of the day, you know, small business is pretty similar across the board. And so the principles and the applications that would apply to a lot of those businesses correlate across vertical. So we have done other businesses that are not trades, but we just don’t focus any of our marketing attention on that.

Building Up Lead Generation for His Business

Ilana: Okay, that’s interesting. So since you mentioned marketing, let’s kind of talk into how you’ve managed to market your agency because you have built a really, really big agency. So credit to that. That’s an amazing achievement.

Matt: Yeah, I wouldn’t say it’s really big.

Ilana: Don’t put yourself down, it’s easy to do, you know, like having a built an agency myself, one of the best source of getting clients is referrals. But it’s very hard to scale referrals. So beyond referrals, how have you managed to really build up that lead generation side for your business?

Matt: It’s funny, you know, our main source of specially qualified customers are qualified leads come from referrals. So we’ve got and to be honest with you, very few of them come from customers, traders are quite hard for some reason to get them do refer friends and colleagues and whatnot. But it does happen, but not a lot. So we’ve built a really strong referral network, and we’ve got a lot of strategic partners, a lot of strategic alliances, we do a lot of referral work between each other’s organizations, we’ve done that from the beginning. I mean, that was the best low budget way for us to get work. So that worked really well. And then we found as well, you know, when we’re talking about, say, call out, Rachel, you know, trying to do your own marketing and getting leads in. Yeah, it would work. But when you’re talking from a conversion perspective, like, obviously, as you just said, the amount of conversions we were getting, when it was coming through a referred lead was far greater than the, you know, the conversions were getting off, say, paid ads, for example.

So it kind of got me thinking as well, when I was in. So earlier in the pace, we in the tradie web guys, we’re going down that path of, we’re investing quite a lot in educating. Because I believe there, I still believe now, you know, if you can empower people or your industry with knowledge, and I suppose a basic understanding of the fundamentals of various as far as things that you might provide. So, for example, we invest quite heavily in educating our clients on how they can update their own website sites, and how they can create content, now, they can, you know, create on page SEO friendly content, all this kind of stuff. And we don’t do that, because we think that they’re not busy, we do it because we want them to be in a position where if they have the resource, they can facilitate it themselves, and they don’t have to feel like they’re completely dependent on us. Second part is, you know, you’re equipping them with the knowledge will have a basic understanding of, if they do want to outsource it, they know what to ask, and they know what to be looking for in that scenario. So it’s like a double edged sword. Really, a lot of people think we’re nuts, because we’re giving so much away. But at the end of the day, it’s not for us so much about, you know, I mean, information is everywhere today, you kno we’re in the information age, people can get information to things. So we figure we can provide that information, it makes us It makes us look good. And it puts them in a position where, they can learn a new skill, if they want, that will typically call light too many businesses, and then if they want help with it, we can help them with it.

The Site Shed Podcast and How it Generates Leads

Matt: So it’s basically giving them the option as opposed to say, Well, this is, you know, this is it, do it or don’t like we sort of like, give me a bit more of an option in that decision making process. So where was I going with that? Oh, yeah, so we started educating, and, you know, like, always speaking it, you know, Department of Education down in Canberra, at the Round Table of ants, and always kind of stuff and then take New South Wales. And this is really good , we can look at feedback from that. But it was kind of micro like, you could only reach the people that were in the room or that were at the event. And so I was thinking, how can you make this more of a macro model where you can really get this information, but people are actually telling us there, and they get benefiting from how can we get this out to the masses. So February of 2016, I launched the site shed and the site shed from the get go is basically a business platform where trade business owners can come and get resources, information, tools, join a network, all that kind of stuff that’s relevant to the industry. So that started as, and still is today, a business podcast for traders. And you can get all of that across anywhere you listen to podcast, really, it’s the leading business podcast for tried businesses in Australia. And it’s growing very rapidly in the US, which is kind of cool. Yeah. And so basically, we just talk about business related things they are, I get lots of amazing guests on the show, because no one wants to listen to me. But they certainly want to listen to the people that we get on there. Because there’s some extremely smart business owners from around the world and industry experts that specialize in different areas that can that that relate to the trades. And so now we’re 160 odd episodes, you know, we have recorded 172 or something. So we backlogged, pretty fair bit as well. So yeah, it’s going it’s going really well.

Ilana: So the goal of the podcast is, obviously to feed your agency with leads, is that right?

Matt: It’s sort of twofold. It’s got to the point now, where the podcasts is sort of become its own business. And I don’t mean that necessarily from a monetary perspective at this point. However, there is some things I can’t talk about, because I’m under NDA. And yeah, there’s a lot of cool stuff that’s coming up with that, which is going to be really good. So the the Initially, it was a way that we could educate the masses, and if they needed digital solutions, we could fly that flag for them. And it still does work as that as well, I might add. So we get a lot of leads that come through the podcast, I run promotions at the beginning of the podcast on things that we’re doing. So that might be for example, websites, it could be events we’ve got coming up, we run these crazy events all over the world where we take people skiing, and we run business workshops, and surf shops, and all this kind of stuff. So we’ve been doing that for for quite a while. Yeah, which is fun. And so anything like that we promote through the podcast, and then that, you know, typically drives us a lot of traffic, leads and eventually customers.

Ilana: That’s awesome. So you put that in the intro with some kind of, promo. And obviously, the promotion ends by a certain date

Matt: For advancement, you’ve got to get things up. So you know, you you can only take so many on an event and to be honest with you, the only one to take so many years it gets pretty hard to manage. You get too many people in there. So it’s very often a case of the less is often more. It’s the small events and they’re really sort of targeted towards on a certain topic, which we teach. And we do it in a way and and I was asked to ski during the day and we do business workshop in the afternoon or surf during the day and business workshops in the afternoon. Yeah, it’s a lot of fun.

Using Facebook Group and Getting Qualified Leads

Ilana: Yeah, so before we hit record, you mentioned that you also have a free Facebook community, how are you managing to get people into that community? Some kind of like funnel and I guess second follow-up to the question is, what is the point of the Facebook community?

Matt: So the reality is and this is kind of by design as well, I might add, when I was sort of thinking, how can we reach more qualified customers? I think there’s a big, there’s a big disconnect between people getting so caught up in traffic, that they neglect qualified traffic as a massive variable. And when I was sort of brainstorming, you know, before we launched the site shed, and all that kind of stuff. I was thinking, well, how can we like, who are our best type of customers typically who understand, willing to pay the money, and want to learn a lot. Who are these people? And so it was sort of, at the time when podcasting was sort of kicking off and getting, you know, starting to become a bit more popular and I thought will typically people listen to podcasts are people that have a little bit of a little bit tech savvy, so they kind of, you know, not like tech wizards, but they, you know, they’ve, they’ve figured out how to get it on their phone, or, you know, connected their car or whatever it is, they can typically they’re willing to invest in education like, albeit that at that point, you know, it’s, it’s a time investment, but, you know, time is a commodity. So that’s a good, that’s a good qualify for us. So that’s why we launched I suppose the podcast to a degree because, I mean, if in reality, if I was to look at statistics about, you know, the amount of traders around the world that listen to podcast, you’ll probably find that it far more of them will watch a YouTube video, the type of person that type of business that we wanted to attract wasn’t that type of the top and I wonder track with somebody, it was far more invested education bit more in technology that quarterly.

Ilana: That’s quite intentional.

Matt: Yeah, it was by design. So there will be talking about off the bat. So we had, you know, some products and some calls and things like that we were selling. And we were driving people into a, like a webinar through Facebook ads.

Results of Using Facebook Group

Ilana: How is that performing?

Matt: Yeah, I mean, look, it was, well, statistically, it was performing far better than all of that piece. We sort of set this up with, you know, within a group and they were comparing stats and that kind of thing, and as we’re counting it, but I think that was largely due to the that like the targeting aspect on Facebook. Some of these some guys were spending, you know, $200 to get someone to watch a webinar, we were spending 100 bucks, which it was still a lot of money. And it doesn’t mean of course that you’ve got a sale. So, you know, from there, we would stick them into a funnel, and we educate, nurture and, you know, we basically put them through like, the start that education process because it was, it was a relatively high to get costs to, like, these guys are paying, you know, five grand plus for these for these costs. So, it wasn’t like a small thing. It’s not like a 99 but course and, you know, if you go so, it was going okay, but I just, I was like, the, I don’t know, I just felt like we were getting so many people that wouldn’t click on watch half a half a webinar, we tried all different formats, and we tried different time, like links for the webinars always kind of staff and different content, and it just felt like it wasn’t it kind of felt way too salesy for me. And I wasn’t really that comfortable with it. And I think being being a trader myself I kind of always me off you know, always like I wouldn’t watch these Why would anyone else watch this I have that kind of attitude.

Know Your Target Audience and Moderate Your Group

Ilana: Like the fact that you are your target audience to some degree you had that extra you know insight to go this is just not my industry you know, so I can imagine like the noise in the market from the IM internet marketing guru saying, you got to be nice you got to be that but then it’s like mismatch in your industry.

Matt: It’s exactly right. And it sort of leads into what I’m what we absorb now in our community, right. So obviously, you and I met with, you know, and networking community in, in Sydney. And, you know, the father runs that preaches a lot about about well, I know Well, yeah, yes, definitely. But um, you know, we were talking about communities, you know, having having membership sites, and all this kind of stuff. And I went down, it was funny, because I was at the point where we’d set up, we’d set up the program or this course. And it was basically on a membership site effectively, and we’re back kick off the forum side of things. And I sat back and I look at it, and I thought, this is retarded, like, I was in this group. And I would never, ever, ever jump into that forum, I just would never log in. And I just couldn’t feel like me understand how people have the time to sit in this membership site all day, and just post comments. And I just couldn’t for walk me understand how it works. And I thought, there’s something in this, like, I am not the right audience for this group. And I am my customer at the end of the day, and I know my customers I’m going to be, it’s far easier for them to commit to something like a Facebook community than it is to a membership site, because I just won’t be there. I just know they won’t be there.

Ilana: And that has engagement issues.

Matt: Exactly. Right. So, you know, we build a build a bit of a stretch did year round. And, you know, we did a bit of research on it as well. And I thought, what the hell the end of the day, like, you know, either I invest heavily in building my own membership site, which I’m not convinced by any measure is going to work, because there’s been a couple of people in the industry who would try to do similar things, and they all just fees. And then I thought, Well, why don’t I try doing this in, you know, doing it on Facebook, it’s not gonna cost me anything, well, it’ll cost me nothing, but considerably less.

And at least I know that I’ve got, you know, I can target my audience from there. And I can, you know, I can reach out to people I can get them in. And so we built a bit of a strategy around because we already had the podcast and the podcast was, you know, becoming very well known, like, both here and abroad, I thought, all let’s build a community around or in like, a private Facebook group. And let’s just make it really, really high quality members, and really, really high quality conversation. And so, you know, there’s a lot, especially in the trades, and I mean, I’m sure a lot of your listeners would not be familiar, but trust me, there’s a lot of out there, like these, these groups, and they basically just slides the hell out of each other. And it’s, you know, it’s pretty vulgar, and we didn’t want any of that. So we, you know, we put together a bit of a policy for letting people in people that come in, you know, we have to answer questions. And as I said to you yesterday, you know, we actually block more people than we lead into the group. So, because we want only want qualified people and everyone that, you know, the qualified conversations that we’re having to be, you know, that we wanted to stay and maintain a standard

Ilana: That’s your duty as a community organizer is to set a precedent and maintain that level of quality.

Matt: Well, I would agree with that. But then I’ve never seen a group that actually does it all. For me, I was like, I just, I mean, especially in the trades, like, it’s always it’s just crap. So yeah, so that was part of the deal. And we, we set it up like that. And then basically, people that come into that community, they have the option there, if they want to sign up for a bot, or if they want to, you know, go into like, a, if they want to get sent information, if they want to be sending information, they go into our newsletter, which goes out weekly. So then we can educate them more. And we can recap on things like podcasts and all that kind of stuff. We’re basically is add value. It’s almost like a curation, if you will. And so yeah, so so that community has been running for a long, long time now. And the feedback we get from it is just phenomenal, what is people I just can’t believe the value that comes out of these groups. And it’s better by design, you know, we’ve got the right expert in there, we’ve got the right people will type of business owners in there. And I mean, we, we boot a lot of people out there, like, even yesterday, there was some guy dropping, you know, C bombs and F bombs. And I just, I mean, I won’t even warn him I just removed him out of  the group was just don’t have the time, the energy this is too much engagement in that group don’t have to worry about that sort of people. So yeah, I just, I just screenshot it and send it to send it to my social manager and just said, Here, this is what I’ve done. And she’s looking at numbers.

Risks Of Creating A Community on a Platform You Don’t Own

Ilana: Have you kind of, I mean, you know, the, the risk, obviously, with the Facebook group, it’s, you know, that it’s on a platform you don’t own and control and, you know, Zuckerberg can, you know, strike of whatever, have you kind of added some level of insurance with that, like, have you got people’s email addresses? So that if you Yeah,

Matt: Okay. I mean, as I said, Before you know, we say, would you like to receive information on blah blah, whatever it is, and if they do, then they would stick them in the newsletter, but that’s all, it’s all good in theory, you know, like, and I get that the whole, you know, and I’ve always preached this to people, and I still preach to people today, you know, if you’re gonna, if you’re going to invest in in things and, you know, have some sort of control over it. And I especially relate that back to websites, you know, like, we see, you know, when, when clients go and post, you know, these huge, huge pieces, or, you know, effectively blogs on their Facebook page, and why guys, he’s doing this wrong, like, they should live on your website, and you should be posting a link to Facebook, sending people back to your website, that kind of thing. But are we talking about community, again, it just comes back to that analysis we do in the early stages, like, you got to be realistic about where your customers are. So, I mean, if I was targeting, you know, if I was talking targeting mortgage brokers, I probably wouldn’t have a huge success on Facebook, or maybe I would, I don’t, I don’t know. But, you know, you probably find, you’d have a better better hit, right, you know, with a LinkedIn group or something like that. So it just comes back to what you think your customers are going to be, and what’s going to get the best engagement.

I mean, I just know the quality of people that we’ve got in that group, and that I pay to be in there, but we pay for that to be in so we run, you know, Facebook ads to drive people into a free community. So, you know, when you comparing that to the webinar, the webinars that we’re running and earlier in the pace, you know, we’re paying 700 bucks per view of the, of the webinar, which was good, and then the now, you know, we’re getting people into a free community for, you know, under under 30 cents.

Don’t Go For The Hard Sell

Ilana: So, wow, the difference in cost per conversion, isn’t it?

Matt: Well, I mean, you got to think about as well, the offer there, right. So when you’re trying to sell people in a webinar, like, they know, you’re pitching something, at the end of it, when you’re selling people into a free community, they’re joining a free community. So it’s not like, it’s the hardest barrier of entry, you know, so that was kind of by design as well actually make this easy for people to get in. And then if they want information, or if they want services, and all that kind of stuff in you know, that’s available for them in there. But it’s, we found it, we find it works better to do it that way, and then go for the hard sell, and then try to nurture because typically, what happens is if you go in, if you start with that big sell your typically lose them. And whereas if you start with, you know, education, nurturing and just, you know, community, you know, I appreciate that. And without something pops up they need, then we can, you know, we can volunteer it.

Lead Time for Conversion

Ilana: Do you have any idea of those kinds of steps like that conversion from the group to some kind of sale of some degree, do you have any idea of that lead time, and if those leads to convert.

Matt: Not really, to be honest with you for something that , it’s a conversation I had with my, um, my manager I meet two weeks ago, and I said, we’re going to start putting a bit more effort into into that and the like, just analyzing and reaching out to these religious group members, it just as well it comes down a resource like it’s a when you’re running a community is really, really engaged, it does take quite a bit of time, and it does take quite a bit of vetting.

Ilana: And that was my next question actually, like how much time do you find it takes to manage this group?

Matt: I don’t spend a lot of time in there but I mean Italia, she she spent a lot of time in there. So she’s it’s basically a job she made it to the group she she qualifies the people that are in there she if I mean, it’s funny now as well. Like, initially, we sort of it was up to us to sort of come up with questions and, you know, start conversations. But now that it’s more established that we find that we don’t even have to post stuff like, people would just come in there. And they asked questions. And then next minute, there’s a thread of 150 comments that all tie back, you know, from, from business owners all across the globe that have had experiences with that area. I mean, that’s better feedback than we could ever give what you’ve got a collaborative group of people here that are willing to, you know, invest and share their experience, it’s, it’s kind of, it’s at the point where it kind of feels that cell from content perspective, which is great, because then as a result, you know, when we see a really active thread, and we see a really, you know, engaged conversation, then I can take that, and I can extract that into a podcast, and I can do an episode on and get an expert on the show. And, you know, I mean, like, it sort of gives me content leverage.

Ilana: So I can see it’s kind of like, it all feeds into each other. You know, the podcast, I’m sure feeds into the community, the community feedback to the podcast, they’re all kind of linked in some degree. So what kind of Facebook ads have you tried? Or is that probably not a question for you? Since you might not do that?

Matt: Yeah, I don’t really do a lot of it. But we when we’ve run so image ads with long copy, we’ve run image ads with short copy, we’re trying different types of images. And to be honest with you, like, I look at the ads that we’ve created, and I just think my God is so crap I just don’t like it. But then you got to as like, as I keep getting told, it’s not about you, You got to look at what’s working. So I sort of try and swallow my pride when it comes to those sort of things.

Don’t Gauge What’s Popular Based on Listen and Downloads

Ilana
To do that on a daily basis. Like I you know, I say to people all the time, I’m constantly humbled online, things that I think will work don’t think i think will will just be terrible killer, like, because I’m not the target audience, you know, so you have to leave your ego in the other room, you know.

Matt: Yeah, we’re doing some it’s funny as well, for the live it drives me crazy. But you look at um, a couple last couple of weeks, we’ve we’ve had to draw some, you know, some pretty some statistics from the podcast is in relation to, you know, what’s the most popular content always kind of stuff. And to be honest, we want to form we put we podcasts, it’s very hard to gauge what’s most popular, purely based off, listens and downloads, because I mean, I don’t know about you, but I mean, I subscribe to say, a handful of podcast not a lot, by the way, I just, you know, it’s only a few of them, I listen to. So say, for example, you know, the Tim Ferriss podcast, or whatever it is, I don’t I listen to that podcast when it comes out of, you know, every week. So whether or not it’s a, you know, a good point what I would consider an amazing podcast, or if it’s a good podcast, or if it’s not so great, I still listen to it. So I feel like if you’re trying to gauge you know, how you good your content is based off a download or listen, it’s not very accurate. So we try and, you know, we draw more of our, we draw more about stats out of kind of communication and content that’s come from within the community based around the topics within that group. And then a lot of the content for the podcast.

Now, as I just said, he’s kind of fueled by those conversations as well. So we know that it’s going to get better engagement, because it’s almost like you getting out getting to the community to buy in to the content that we are creating. So they sort of feel like they’re invested in it. And we’ll do things as well, you know, within the community, where I’ll say, Hey, guys, we’ve got this episode coming up on on finance, you know, you’ve all wanted to know about equipment finance, and vehicle finance. I’m getting the seller on the show to talk about it. What are some of the questions you want to ask? And, you know, it makes them buy into a little bit more than when you actually recording the podcast. You know, you can say, Hi, this was a question from a lot. I she wanted to know a little bit more about interest rates, and it just, he makes them feel like they invest. And they are to be fair, like those basically, it’s those comments that are really led to the creation of that podcast, which is good for everyone.

Ilana: Yeah, that’s awesome. Cool. All right. Well, I think that pretty much covers everything unless I’ve forgotten something that I should have asked you.

Quality Leads Over Quantity of Leads

Matt: Yeah, I think that pretty much wraps up. I think, at the end of the day, as we said before, it’s not really like lead generation is super important. But what’s more important is qualified lead generation. And if people can just make that paradigm shift from that whole churn and burn mentality where they’re like on a more customers anymore leads anymore, listens, any more downloads and always kind of stuff like that doesn’t necessarily reflect success. And you see all the time and you’ve listened to, you know, there’s a lot of podcasts out there that, you know, best strategies to create as many as possible and you go and listen to them and their and you think why what’s the point like, I’d rather listen to one good podcast a month from this person that they’ve, you know, put time into preparing and, you know, three a week because it’s all garbage.

Ilana: So quality over quantity any day

Matt: Yeah, but I think it correlates as well into you know, everything like the community managing or you the community you’re building that correlates into the language you use on you know, across your, your marketing or whatever it is your education and it really like I can tell you now, like I’d rather have a I’d rather have a group of 100 really qualified cane positive people then you know, 10,000 tire kickers that I just did a sledge in, you know, just take a piece and not add any value, you know, so, but if you look at that from us, the digital point of view and you say, Okay, well, you know, and that’s all your question you get, well, how many people in your group and you know, how many downloads, you get all this stuff, it doesn’t really matter. Like, it’s not about that. And I think people get too caught up in too caught up in these things. And, you know, especially when you’re targeting a specific vertical, like, that’s never really it’s never really relevant, because if you want it to mass numbers, you would not be targeting a specific vertical vertical, you just go the shotgun approach and see what sticks. But, you know, when you’re really trying to build a tight knit community, even, you know, that meshing approach and that qualification process becomes so relevant and, you know, when you compare it to what else is available in the market place, it becomes a differentiator like it makes you stand out.

Ilana: Yeah and I think that’s really, really sound advice on that thank you so much for coming on today show it sounds like you’re doing some awesome work in your space. And I love the fact that you’ve chosen a vertical so and obviously killing it in your vertical so well done. That’s awesome.

Matt: Thank you for having me.

Ilana: Yeah, thanks for coming on. And we’ll talk to you soon.

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I discovered the world of PPC about 10 years ago when I left the corporate world as a data analyst.

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Privacy Policy

We are committed to protecting your privacy, and this policy explains how we collect and process personal information about you when you use our products and services (our “Services”), or when you otherwise do business or make contact with us by visiting all of the Sites and services owned, hosted, or operated by Altolana Pty Ltd t/a Green Arrow Digital (collectively “we,” “us,” or “our”), including greenarrowdigital.com, greenarrowdigital.com.au, ilanawechsler.com and any other site that we have owned or operated, do own and operate or may own or operate in the future including social media sites (collectively, the “Sites”). Unless we say otherwise, all references to the Sites in this policy include all such Sites.

Should we ask you to provide certain information by which you can be identified when using our websites, then you can be assured that it will only be used in accordance with this privacy statement.

Green Arrow Digital may change this policy from time to time by updating this page. You should check this page from time to time to ensure that you are happy with any changes. This policy is effective from 24/05/2018.

What Type Of Information We Collect

We may collect the following information when you register to use our Services, subscribe to our newsletters, respond to a survey or offer, make an enquiry through our websites, or contact us in any other way:

  • Name, email, address, phone number
  • Job title, organisation information
  • Usernames and passwords
  • Billing details (Payment card details are processed and stored via one of our contracted third party service providers. We encrypt your payment card details in your browser and securely transfer this data to our relevant third party payment provider to process a payment.)
  • Transaction data for of products and services you have purchased from us.
  • Demographic information such as postcode, preferences and interests
  • IP address and your use of our websites
  • If you register for a course the information is used to to track your preferences, and to keep you informed about the course and related events
  • Copies of your communications with us

How We Use The Information We Collect

The personal information we collect from you may be used in one or more of the following ways to help us understand your needs and provide you with a better service :

  • To deal with enquiries, requests and technical support (your information helps us respond to your individual needs)
  • To create and administer records about any online account that you register with us
  • To provide you with information and access to resources that you have requested from us
  • To improve our websites (we continually strive to improve our website offerings based on the information and feedback we receive from you)
  • For website and system administration and security
  • For general business purposes, including to improve customer service (to effectively respond to your customer service requests and support needs), to help us improve the content and functionality of our Services, to better understand our users, to protect against wrongdoing, to enforce our Terms of Service, and to generally manage our business
  • To process transactions and to provide Services to our customers and end-users
  • For recruitment purposes, in the event you apply for a job with us
  • To administer contests, promotions, surveys, or other content across our sites
  • To send periodic transactional emails. The email address you provide to process your order and purchase a product will only be used to send you information and updates pertaining to your order. Where it is in accordance with your marketing preferences, we will send occasional marketing emails about our products and services, which you can unsubscribe from at any time using the link provided in the message.

Your Rights With Respect To The Data We Collect

Under the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR), you have the right to access, rectify, port and erase your data, as well as the right to restrict and object to certain processing of your data. This includes:

  • where you have agreed to direct marketing, the right to object to our processing of your data for that purpose, which you can exercise by using the “unsubscribe” link in such marketing communications; and
  • the right to object to our processing of your data where we are pursuing our legitimate interests or those of a third party which you can exercise by requesting us to delete your details at any time by sending a written request via email to: support@greenarrowdigital.com

You can contact our Data Privacy Officer (DPO) and dedicated compliance team at any time by emailing us at support@greenarrowdigital.com and we’ll be able to assist with your data inquiries, requests and data protection issues.

Controlling Your Personal Information

You may choose to restrict the collection or use of your personal information in the following ways:

  • Whenever you are asked to fill in a form on our websites, look for the box that you can click to indicate your preference regarding receiving further marketing correspondence from us
  • If you have previously agreed to us using your personal information for direct marketing purposes, you may change your mind at any time by emailing us at support@greenarrowdigital.com
  • We will not sell, distribute or lease your personal information to third parties unless we have your permission or are required by law to do so. We may use your personal information to send you promotional information about third parties which we think you may find interesting if you tell us that you wish this to happen.
  • You may request details of personal information which we hold about you. If you would like a copy of the information held on you please email your request to support@greenarrowdigital.com
  • If you believe that any information we are holding on you is incorrect or incomplete, please email us as soon as possible, at the above address. We will promptly correct any information found to be incorrect.

Email newsletters:

If you subscribe to receive one or more of our email newsletters, you will need to register an account with us. We provide newsletters to you free of charge.

Our newsletters may contain promotions or advertisements relating to goods or services provided by us and associated third parties. If at any time you wish to unsubscribe from an email newsletter you may do so by following the unsubscribe instructions on the newsletter or by emailing us at support@greenarrowdigital.com.

Cookies:

The website automatically gathers certain information such as IP addresses and the number and frequency of visitors to the website and individual web pages. This is collected using cookies and is used by us for security and monitoring purposes, to manage the website, to track usage, to improve the website and to improve the website services.

Cookies are pieces of information that are stored by the browser on the hard drive of your computer. The website also uses cookies to enable us, and any person who advertises on the website, to provide features such as remembering certain information about you and your preferences so that we and they can deliver targeted material which will be of most interest to you.

Cookies can be deleted from your hard drive or you can configure your web browser so that it rejects cookies. Rejection of cookies will not prevent you from using most of the features on the website. If you experience any problems deleting cookies, you should contact the supplier of your web browser.

Information sharing:

We only ever share your personal information with third parties with your permission.

If any third party organises or manages on our behalf a promotion, competition, survey or poll run through the website in which you wish to participate, we may ask to disclose your information to that third party to enable them to do so. They will be prohibited from using your information for any other purpose unless you have given them specific consent.

Note that if you upload or post any information to a public part of the website, we may use it in accordance with our Terms and it may be viewed and used by others.

Forums and Blogs:

Please be aware that when you post information to any forums, chat rooms, blogs, or message boards on or through the website, that information can be accessed by the public and used to send you unsolicited communications.

Data Retention

Your information is collected and stored on servers on behalf www.greenarrowdigital.com. We may keep your information for a reasonable period for the purposes set out in this Policy.

We may retain your personal information as long as you continue to use the Services, have an account with us, or for as long as is necessary to fulfil the purposes outlined in the policy. You can ask to close your account by contacting us at the details at the bottom of this document, and we will delete your personal information on request.

We may, however, retain personal information for an additional period as is permitted or required under applicable laws, for legal, tax, or regulatory reasons, or for legitimate and lawful business purposes.

Security:

We adopt appropriate security procedures to help prevent unauthorised access to your information. www.greenarrowdigital.com shall not be liable for any attempt to hack or crack or otherwise gain access to any part of this website including any of your information.

Use of details:

In order to make use of some services provided through the website such as the forums, email newsletters, competitions and polls, you will need to register an account with us. When you do so, you will provide us with information about yourself and you will be able to choose to receive our newsletter. You can log in to your account and update your preference at any time in the membership details section of your profile. We will only use your information in accordance with your instructions and as set out in this policy.

By providing us with telephone numbers or an email address, you consent to being contacted by these methods for these purposes. If you do not want to receive marketing information from us, you can notify us as part of the registration process, you can stop receiving this information at any time by following the unsubscribe instructions on the correspondence you receive, by amending your account preferences, or by emailing us at admin@greenarrowdigital.com giving your username and password plus details of the information you no longer wish to receive.

If you wish to take part in any poll or survey run through the website, we will also use your information for the purposes specified in the poll or survey. We may also disclose non-personal, aggregated information we collect through the poll or survey to third parties.

If you wish to take part in any promotion or competition run through the website, we will also use your information for the purposes specified in the promotion or competition, to make sure you are eligible to enter the promotion or competition, to contact you if you have won a prize and for publicity purposes.

Governing Law

This policy and the use of this Site are governed by the laws of Australia exclusively. If a dispute arises under this Policy we agree to first try to resolve it with the help of a mutually agreed-upon mediator in the following location: Sydney, Australia. Any costs and fees other than attorney fees associated with the mediation will be shared equally by each of us.

If it proves impossible to arrive at a mutually satisfactory solution through mediation, we agree to submit the dispute to binding arbitration at the following location: Sydney, Australia. Judgment upon the award rendered by the arbitration may be entered in any court with jurisdiction to do so.

Green Arrow Digital is controlled, operated and administered entirely within Sydney, Australia. This statement and the policies outlined herein are not intended to and do not create any contractual or other legal rights in or on behalf of any party.

The application of the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods, as amended, is expressly excluded.

Other sites:

The website contains links to third party websites. We may, on occasion, disclose non-personal aggregated information to the owners or providers of those third party websites.

We link to a wide variety of other websites and we display advertisements from third parties on our website. We are not responsible for the content or privacy policies of these websites or for third party advertisers or for the way in which information about their users is treated. In particular, unless expressly stated, we are not agents for those sites or advertisers nor are we authorised to make representations on their behalf.

Once you have used these links to leave our sites, you should note that we do not have any control over that other website. Therefore, we cannot be responsible for the protection and privacy of any information which you provide whilst visiting such sites and such sites are not governed by this privacy statement. You should exercise caution and look at the privacy statement applicable to the website in question.

Information use:

We may use your information as set out in this privacy policy and in any other manner you expressly consent to us doing so, we may also use your information for any purpose if we are required to do so by any law or other regulatory or government authority, to enforce our terms or to protect the safety of others. In particular, we may collect and use personal information for the purposes of investigating and, if necessary, removing any content about which we receive a complaint.

Policy changes:

By using the website you agree to the terms of this Policy and our Terms. We may amend this Policy and the Terms from time to time. If we do so, we will post an updated version on the website. You will be bound by the new terms upon your continued use of the website.

Altolana Pty Limited trades as Green Arrow Digital

ABN: 72 141 554 047

If you have any questions you may contact us at:

Green Arrow Digital

PO Box 562

Rose Bay

Sydney 2029

Australia

support@greenarrowdigital.com

Terms and Condition

Introduction

Green Arrow Digital regards customer privacy as an important part of our relationship with our customers. The following privacy policy applies to all Green Arrow Digital users, and conforms to Internet privacy standards. If you have questions or concerns regarding this statement, you should first contact Ilana Wechsler at (02) 8060 7311.

Collection of Information

In order to use the Green Arrow Digital website, we may require information from you in order to provide the best service possible. All correspondence may also be collected and stored, particularly in regard to sales, support and accounts, including Email. Any information collected by Green Arrow Digital is collected via correspondence from you or your company. This may be via the telephone, Email, mail, fax or directly through our website.

Use of Collection Information

Any details collected from Green Arrow Digital customers is required in order to provide you with our products and/or services, and a high level of customer service. Correspondence is recorded in order to provide service references, and to assist in our staff development.

Storage of Collected Information

The security of your personal information is important to us. When you enter sensitive information (such as credit card numbers) on our website, we encrypt that information using secure socket layer technology (SSL). When Credit Card details are collected, we simply pass them on in order to be processed as required. We never permanently store complete Credit Card details.

We follow generally accepted industry standards to protect the personal information submitted to us, both during transmission and once we receive it.

If you have any questions about security on our Website, you can email us at ilana@greenarrowdigital.com

Access to Collected Information

If your personally identifiable information changes, or if you no longer desire our service, you may correct, update, delete or deactivate it by emailing us at ilana@greenarrowdigital.com.

Orders

If you purchase a product or service from us, we may request certain personally identifiable information from you. You may be required to provide contact information (such as name, Email, and postal address) and financial information (such as credit card number, expiration date). We use this information for billing purposes and to fill your orders. If we have trouble processing an order, we will use this information to contact you.

Communications

Green Arrow Digital uses personally identifiable information for essential communications, such as Emails, accounts information, and critical service details. We may also use this information for other purposes, including some promotional Emails. If at any time a customer wishes not to receive such correspondence, they can request to be removed from any mailing lists by emailing us at ilana@greenarrowdigital.com. You will be notified when your personal information is collected by any third party that is not our agent/service provider, so you can make an informed choice as to whether or not to share your information with that party.

Third Parties

Green Arrow Digital may at its discretion use other third parties to provide essential services on our site or for our business processes. We may share your details as necessary for the third party to provide that service. These third parties are prohibited from using your personally identifiable information for any other purpose. Green Arrow Digital does not share any information with third parties for any unknown or unrelated uses.

Legal

We reserve the right to disclose your personally identifiable information as required by law and when we believe that disclosure is necessary to protect our rights and/or comply with a judicial proceeding, court order, or legal process served on our Website.

Links

Links on the Green Arrow Digital site to external entities are not covered within this policy. The terms and conditions set out in this privacy statement only cover the domain name of www.greenarrowdigital.com

Changes to Privacy Policy

If we decide to change our privacy policy, we will post those changes to this privacy statement, the homepage, and other places we deem appropriate so that you are aware of what information we collect, how we use it, and under what circumstances, if any, we disclose it. We reserve the right to modify this privacy statement at any time, so please review it frequently. If we make material changes to this policy, we will notify you here, by Email, or by means of a notice on our homepage.

Green Arrow Digital Security Policy

Green Arrow Digital uses the eWAY Payment Gateway for its online credit card transactions. eWAY processes online credit card transactions for thousands of Australian merchants, providing a safe and secure means of collecting payments via the Internet. All online credit card transactions performed on this site using the eWAY gateway are secured payments.

– Payments are fully automated with an immediate response.

– Your complete credit card number cannot be viewed by Green Arrow Digital or any outside party.

– All transactions are performed under 128 Bit SSL Certificate.

– All transaction data is encrypted for storage within eWAY’s bank-grade data centre, further protecting your credit card data.

– eWAY is an authorised third party processor for all the major Australian banks.

– eWAY at no time touches your funds; all monies are directly transferred from your credit card to the merchant account held by Green Arrow Digital

For more information about eWAY and online credit card payments, please visit www.eWAY.com.au

Delivery Policy

After ordering online, you will receive an email confirmation from eWAY containing your order details (if you have provided your email address). We will normally confirm receipt of your order within a few minutes of ordering. We will attempt to send your software/license/access code via email within 2 working days.

If you wish to query a delivery please contact us at ilana@greenarrowdigital.com.

Refund Policy

If for any reason you are not completely satisfied with your purchase we will give you a 7 day money-back guarantee from the time you receive the goods. Please email us at ilana@greenarrowdigital.com within that time if you are not satisfied with your purchase so that we can resolve any problems.

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